Talk:789 - 5. Statement - Revision history

Admin at 19:03, 20 August 2018

2018-08-20T19:03:20Z

Admin: /* Joerg: Arguments against Placebo? */ new section

2018-08-20T19:02:28Z

‎Joerg: Arguments against Placebo?: new section

Admin at 18:59, 20 August 2018

2018-08-20T18:59:47Z

Admin at 18:58, 20 August 2018

2018-08-20T18:58:12Z

Admin at 18:54, 20 August 2018

2018-08-20T18:54:56Z

Admin: /* Material on Placebo */ new section

2018-08-20T18:52:09Z

‎Material on Placebo: new section

Admin: Created page with "Jörg: REASONS WHY HOMEOPATHY CAN NOT BE PLACEBO! is not a statement. Andreas:"

2018-08-20T18:51:27Z

Created page with "Jörg: REASONS WHY HOMEOPATHY CAN NOT BE PLACEBO! is not a statement. Andreas:"

New page

Jörg: REASONS WHY HOMEOPATHY CAN NOT BE PLACEBO! is not a statement.

Andreas:

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 <span style="color:#c0392b">Jörg</span>: REASONS WHY HOMEOPATHY CAN NOT BE PLACEBO! is not a statement.
 ----
@@ Line 26: / Line 28: @@
 Laporte JR, Figueras A. Placebo effects in psychiatry. Lancet 1994; 344: 1206-9.
-Joyce CRB. Placebo and complementary medicine. Lancet 1944: 1279-81.<br/> '''Joseph Kleijnen found 1100 publications about placebo'''<br/> Kleijnen JMP de Craen AJM, van Everdingen J mfl. Placebo effect in double-blind clinical trials: a review of interactions with medications. Lancet 1994; 344: 1347-9.
+Joyce CRB. Placebo and complementary medicine. Lancet 1944: 1279-81.<br/> &nbsp;
 The famous review (Jean Pierre <span style="font-family:Wingdings" lang="NO-BOK">J</span>&nbsp;&nbsp; )&nbsp;<br/> Hróbjartsson A, Gøtzsche PC. Is the placebo powerless? An analysis of clinical trials comparing placebo with no treatment. New England Journal of Medicine 2001; 344: 1594-602.
@@ Line 44: / Line 48: @@
 THE START OF IT ALL – (BEVARE OF ALL THE PITFALLS _ WE CAN MENTION A LOT HERE – TELL ME IF WE SHOULD AND I WILL ADD)
-Beecher HK. The powerful placebo. Journal of The American Medical Association 1955; 159: 1602-6. [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/13271123 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/13271123]<br/> &nbsp; '''THE FIRST CONTROLLED TRIAL – INVOLVES HOMEOPATHY; Joseph Dietl (1804-78) in 1849 – he only used ant tart. Comparing venesection, diet and homeopathy)[https://archive.org/details/b21710429 https://archive.org/details/b21710429]'''
+Beecher HK. The powerful placebo. Journal of The American Medical Association 1955; 159: 1602-6. [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/13271123 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/13271123]<br/> &nbsp; '''THE FIRST CONTROLLED TRIAL – INVOLVES HOMEOPATHY; Joseph Dietl (1804-78) in 1849 – he only used ant tart. Comparing venesection, diet and homeopathy)&nbsp; [https://archive.org/details/b21710429 https://archive.org/details/b21710429]'''
-== Joerg:  Arguments against Placebo? ==
+== <span style="color:#c0392b">Joerg</span>: Arguments against Placebo? ==
 I doubt that all the arguments collected here are really excluding placebo effects. These also exist in animals and they also extend to serious diseases. We should be careful not to argue outside the current state of discussion. So this page has to be well researched.

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:02, 20 August 2018
Line 45:		Line 45:

	Beecher HK. The powerful placebo. Journal of The American Medical Association 1955; 159: 1602-6. [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/13271123 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/13271123]<br/>   '''THE FIRST CONTROLLED TRIAL – INVOLVES HOMEOPATHY; Joseph Dietl (1804-78) in 1849 – he only used ant tart. Comparing venesection, diet and homeopathy)[https://archive.org/details/b21710429 https://archive.org/details/b21710429]'''		Beecher HK. The powerful placebo. Journal of The American Medical Association 1955; 159: 1602-6. [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/13271123 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/13271123]<br/>   '''THE FIRST CONTROLLED TRIAL – INVOLVES HOMEOPATHY; Joseph Dietl (1804-78) in 1849 – he only used ant tart. Comparing venesection, diet and homeopathy)[https://archive.org/details/b21710429 https://archive.org/details/b21710429]'''
		+
		+	== Joerg: Arguments against Placebo? ==
		+
		+	I doubt that all the arguments collected here are really excluding placebo effects. These also exist in animals and they also extend to serious diseases. We should be careful not to argue outside the current state of discussion. So this page has to be well researched.

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-Jörg: REASONS WHY HOMEOPATHY CAN NOT BE PLACEBO! is not a statement.
+<span style="color:#c0392b">Jörg</span>: REASONS WHY HOMEOPATHY CAN NOT BE PLACEBO! is not a statement.
 ----
-== Andreas: Material on Placebo ==
+== <span style="color:#c0392b">Andreas</span>: Material on Placebo ==
 '''WE COULD HAVE A PAGE HERE WITH INFO ABOUT THE HISTORY OF PLACEBO AND THE QUESTIONS ABOUT IT:'''
-Joerg:  Actually there is a Wiki-page already to work on: [[Placebo]]
+<span style="color:#c0392b">Joerg</span>: Actually there is a Wiki-page already to work on: [[Placebo|Placebo]]
-'''[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1297390/pdf/jrsocmed00004-0023.pdf https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1297390/pdf/jrsocmed00004-0023.pdf]'''
+[https://placeboarchive.org/data-forte/history/ https://placeboarchive.org/data-forte/history/ [https://www.nursingschoolhub.com/placebo-effect/ https://www.nursingschoolhub.com/placebo-effect/]
-'''[https://placeboarchive.org/data-forte/history/   https://placeboarchive.org/data-forte/history/ [https://www.nursingschoolhub.com/placebo-effect/ https://www.nursingschoolhub.com/placebo-effect/]
+'''About lack of reporting placebo content'''<br/> Golomb BA, Erickson LC, Koperski S mfl. What’s in placebos: Who knows? Analysis of randomized, controlled trials. Ann Intern Med 2010; 153: 532-5.
 &nbsp;

@@ Line 6: / Line 6: @@
 == Andreas: Material on Placebo ==
-'''<span style="font-size:13.0pt" lang="EN-US"><span style="color:#474747">WE COULD HAVE A PAGE HERE WITH INFO ABOUT THE HISTORY OF PLACEBO AND THE QUESTIONS ABOUT IT:</span></span>'''
+'''WE COULD HAVE A PAGE HERE WITH INFO ABOUT THE HISTORY OF PLACEBO AND THE QUESTIONS ABOUT IT:'''
-'''<span style="font-size:14.0pt" lang="NO-BOK"><span style="color:#474747">[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1297390/pdf/jrsocmed00004-0023.pdf https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1297390/pdf/jrsocmed00004-0023.pdf]</span></span>'''
+Joerg:  Actually there is a Wiki-page already to work on: [[Placebo]]
-'''<span style="font-size:14.0pt" lang="NO-BOK"><span style="color:#474747">About lack of reporting placebo content</span></span>'''<br/> Golomb BA, Erickson LC, Koperski S mfl. What’s in placebos: Who knows? Analysis of randomized, controlled trials. Ann Intern Med 2010; 153: 532-5.
+'''[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1297390/pdf/jrsocmed00004-0023.pdf https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1297390/pdf/jrsocmed00004-0023.pdf]'''
 &nbsp;
@@ Line 42: / Line 45: @@
 THE START OF IT ALL – (BEVARE OF ALL THE PITFALLS _ WE CAN MENTION A LOT HERE – TELL ME IF WE SHOULD AND I WILL ADD)
-Beecher HK. The powerful placebo. Journal of The American Medical Association 1955; 159: 1602-6. [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/13271123 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/13271123]<br/> &nbsp; '''THE FIRST CONTROLLED TRIAL – INVOLVES HOMEOPATHY;  Joseph Dietl (1804-78) in 1849 – he only used ant tart. Comparing venesection, diet and homeopathy)[https://archive.org/details/b21710429 https://archive.org/details/b21710429]'''
+Beecher HK. The powerful placebo. Journal of The American Medical Association 1955; 159: 1602-6. [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/13271123 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/13271123]<br/> &nbsp; '''THE FIRST CONTROLLED TRIAL – INVOLVES HOMEOPATHY; Joseph Dietl (1804-78) in 1849 – he only used ant tart. Comparing venesection, diet and homeopathy)[https://archive.org/details/b21710429 https://archive.org/details/b21710429]'''

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-Andreas:
+Jörg: REASONS WHY HOMEOPATHY CAN NOT BE PLACEBO! is not a statement.
-== Material on Placebo ==
+----
 '''<span style="font-size:13.0pt" lang="EN-US"><span style="color:#474747">WE COULD HAVE A PAGE HERE WITH INFO ABOUT THE HISTORY OF PLACEBO AND THE QUESTIONS ABOUT IT:</span></span>'''
-'''<span style="font-size:14.0pt" lang="NO-BOK"><span style="color:#474747">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1297390/pdf/jrsocmed00004-0023.pdf</span></span>'''
+'''<span style="font-size:14.0pt" lang="NO-BOK"><span style="color:#474747">[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1297390/pdf/jrsocmed00004-0023.pdf https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1297390/pdf/jrsocmed00004-0023.pdf]</span></span>'''
-'''&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; '''<br/> '''<span style="font-size:14.0pt" lang="NO-BOK"><span style="color:#474747">[https://placeboarchive.org/data-forte/history/ <span style="color:black">https://placeboarchive.org/data-forte/history/</span>]<br/> <br/> https://www.nursingschoolhub.com/placebo-effect/</span></span>'''<br/> &nbsp;
+'''&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; '''<br/> '''<span style="font-size:14.0pt" lang="NO-BOK"><span style="color:#474747">[https://placeboarchive.org/data-forte/history/ <span style="color:black">https://placeboarchive.org/data-forte/history/</span>]<br/> <br/> [https://www.nursingschoolhub.com/placebo-effect/ https://www.nursingschoolhub.com/placebo-effect/]</span></span>'''<br/> &nbsp;
 '''<span style="font-size:14.0pt" lang="NO-BOK"><span style="color:#474747">About lack of reporting placebo content</span></span>'''<br/> Golomb BA, Erickson LC, Koperski S mfl. What’s in placebos: Who knows? Analysis of randomized, controlled trials. Ann Intern Med 2010; 153: 532-5.
@@ Line 24: / Line 24: @@
 Laporte JR, Figueras A. Placebo effects in psychiatry. Lancet 1994; 344: 1206-9.
-Joyce CRB. Placebo and complementary medicine. Lancet 1944: 1279-81.
+Joyce CRB. Placebo and complementary medicine. Lancet 1944: 1279-81.<br/> '''Joseph Kleijnen found 1100 publications about placebo'''<br/> Kleijnen JMP de Craen AJM, van Everdingen J mfl. Placebo effect in double-blind clinical trials: a review of interactions with medications. Lancet 1994; 344: 1347-9.
 The famous review (Jean Pierre <span style="font-family:Wingdings" lang="NO-BOK">J</span>&nbsp;&nbsp; )&nbsp;<br/> Hróbjartsson A, Gøtzsche PC. Is the placebo powerless? An analysis of clinical trials comparing placebo with no treatment. New England Journal of Medicine 2001; 344: 1594-602.
@@ Line 37: / Line 31: @@
 Logic or the lack of it in the definition<br/> Gøtzsche PC. Is there a logic in the placebo? Lancet 1994; 344: 925-6.
 Gunver Sophie Kienle and Helmut Kiene review of&nbsp; 800 publication<br/> Kienle GS. Der sogenannte Placeboeffekt. Illusion, Fakten, Realität. Stuttgart, BRD: Schattauer Verlagsgesellschaft mbH, 1995.
@@ Line 46: / Line 38: @@
 Kienle GS. Kritische Analyse der wissenschaftlichen Basis des sogenannten Placeboeffekts. Bedeutung des Placeboarguments für die Erfahrungsheilkunde. Acta Medica Empirica (Erfahrungsheilkunde) 1997; 5: 298-306.
-Kienle GS, Kiene H. The powerful placebo effect: fact or fiction? Journal of Clinical Epidemiology 1997; 50: 1311-8. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9449934
+Kienle GS, Kiene H. The powerful placebo effect: fact or fiction? Journal of Clinical Epidemiology 1997; 50: 1311-8. [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9449934 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9449934]
 THE START OF IT ALL – (BEVARE OF ALL THE PITFALLS _ WE CAN MENTION A LOT HERE – TELL ME IF WE SHOULD AND I WILL ADD)
-Beecher HK. The powerful placebo. Journal of The American Medical Association 1955; 159: 1602-6. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/13271123<br/> &nbsp;
+Beecher HK. The powerful placebo. Journal of The American Medical Association 1955; 159: 1602-6. [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/13271123 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/13271123]<br/> &nbsp; '''THE FIRST CONTROLLED TRIAL – INVOLVES HOMEOPATHY;  Joseph Dietl (1804-78) in 1849 – he only used ant tart. Comparing venesection, diet and homeopathy)[https://archive.org/details/b21710429 https://archive.org/details/b21710429]'''

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:52, 20 August 2018
Line 2:		Line 2:

	Andreas:		Andreas:
		+
		+	== Material on Placebo ==
		+
		+
		+	'''<span style="font-size:13.0pt" lang="EN-US"><span style="color:#474747">WE COULD HAVE A PAGE HERE WITH INFO ABOUT THE HISTORY OF PLACEBO AND THE QUESTIONS ABOUT IT:</span></span>'''
		+
		+	'''<span style="font-size:14.0pt" lang="NO-BOK"><span style="color:#474747">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1297390/pdf/jrsocmed00004-0023.pdf</span></span>'''
		+
		+	'''     '''<br/> '''<span style="font-size:14.0pt" lang="NO-BOK"><span style="color:#474747">[https://placeboarchive.org/data-forte/history/ <span style="color:black">https://placeboarchive.org/data-forte/history/</span>]<br/> <br/> https://www.nursingschoolhub.com/placebo-effect/</span></span>'''<br/>
		+
		+	'''<span style="font-size:14.0pt" lang="NO-BOK"><span style="color:#474747">About lack of reporting placebo content</span></span>'''<br/> Golomb BA, Erickson LC, Koperski S mfl. What’s in placebos: Who knows? Analysis of randomized, controlled trials. Ann Intern Med 2010; 153: 532-5.
		+
		+
		+
		+	'''The debate about placebo in the Lancet'''<br/> Saintonge C de, Mark D, Herxheimer A. Harnessing placebo effects in health care. Lancet 1994; 344: 995-8.
		+
		+	Johnson AG. Surgery as placebo. Lancet 1994; 344: 1140-2.
		+
		+	Thomas KB. The placebo in general practice. Lancet 1994; 344:1066-7.
		+
		+	Laporte JR, Figueras A. Placebo effects in psychiatry. Lancet 1994; 344: 1206-9.
		+
		+	Joyce CRB. Placebo and complementary medicine. Lancet 1944: 1279-81.
		+
		+	<br/> '''Joseph Kleijnen found 1100 publications about placebo'''<br/> Kleijnen JMP de Craen AJM, van Everdingen J mfl. Placebo effect in double-blind clinical trials: a review of interactions with medications. Lancet 1994; 344: 1347-9.
		+
		+
		+
		+
		+
		+	The famous review (Jean Pierre <span style="font-family:Wingdings" lang="NO-BOK">J</span>   ) <br/> Hróbjartsson A, Gøtzsche PC. Is the placebo powerless? An analysis of clinical trials comparing placebo with no treatment. New England Journal of Medicine 2001; 344: 1594-602.
		+
		+	Hróbjartsson A, Gøtzsche PC. Placebo interventions for all clinical conditions (Cochrane Review). I: the Cochrane Library 2004; 3. Chichester, UK: John Wiley & Sons, Ltd (oppdatert).
		+
		+	Logic or the lack of it in the definition<br/> Gøtzsche PC. Is there a logic in the placebo? Lancet 1994; 344: 925-6.
		+
		+
		+
		+	Gunver Sophie Kienle and Helmut Kiene review of  800 publication<br/> Kienle GS. Der sogenannte Placeboeffekt. Illusion, Fakten, Realität. Stuttgart, BRD: Schattauer Verlagsgesellschaft mbH, 1995.
		+
		+	Kienle GS, Kiene H. Placebo effect and placebo concept: A critical methodological and conceptual analysis of reports on the magnitude of the placebo effect. Alternative Therapies in Health and Medicine 1996; 2: 39-54.
		+
		+	Kienle GS. Kritische Analyse der wissenschaftlichen Basis des sogenannten Placeboeffekts. Bedeutung des Placeboarguments für die Erfahrungsheilkunde. Acta Medica Empirica (Erfahrungsheilkunde) 1997; 5: 298-306.
		+
		+	Kienle GS, Kiene H. The powerful placebo effect: fact or fiction? Journal of Clinical Epidemiology 1997; 50: 1311-8. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9449934
		+
		+	THE START OF IT ALL – (BEVARE OF ALL THE PITFALLS _ WE CAN MENTION A LOT HERE – TELL ME IF WE SHOULD AND I WILL ADD)
		+
		+	Beecher HK. The powerful placebo. Journal of The American Medical Association 1955; 159: 1602-6. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/13271123<br/>
		+	'''<span style="font-size:14.0pt" lang="EN-US"><span style="font-family:" times="" new="" roman","serif""=""><span style="color:#474747">THE FIRST CONTROLLED TRIAL – INVOLVES HOMEOPATHY (</span></span></span>'''<span style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US"><span style="font-family:" times="" new="" roman","serif""="">Joseph Dietl (1804-78) in 1849 – he only used ant tart. Comparing venesection, diet and homeopathy)</span></span><br/> '''<span style="font-size:14.0pt" lang="EN-US"><span style="font-family:" times="" new="" roman","serif""=""><span style="color:#474747">https://archive.org/details/b21710429</span></span></span>'''